In A Yellow Raft in Blue Water, we see two single mothers raising children—Christine raising Ray and Aunt Ida raising Lee and Christine. And I understand that both mothers took this on this role through their own volition, but I also can’t help but think that having women as the caretakers reinforces certain gender roles in society. I wonder, had the primary figures in this text been fathers, would things have been different? And we see this in the movie Smoke Signals, too. It is the dad who leaves the family behind, forcing the mother to raise a child on her own. So, I guess what I am trying to get at here is the idea of gender roles in our culture. The stereotype of mothers being the more nurturing parent, the more fit parent, to raise a child is something we see a lot of. Where do you all think this stereotype comes from? Do you think it is OK to always peg the mother as the caretaker? How do today’s families adhere to these gender roles? How do they differ? What has changed over the years? Consider this article, brought in by Kaitlyn Rogers in third period as an open mic. Read through some of the woman’s ‘duties.’
Pretty outrageous, huh? And comical, to say the least. But remember, that used to be the norm. Things are different now, obviously. I’m curious as to how the characters in A Yellow Raft in Blue Water fit the traditional roles and stereotypes of our society. Do you think the text perpetuates certain stereotypes? Or do you think it breaks free from those things? Weigh in, and think hard. We are going to talk about this one in class and these kinds of topics will be the basis of our next unit on gender roles and sexuality.
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ReplyDeleteThe sad thing is some people in our society still think this is how woman should be. Many people think woman are the caretakers and are responsible for the cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the children. However i will say this has defiently improved since the 50s. Stereotypes really stink in my opinion. I hate the fact that woman are always held responsible for being the care takers... and on the other side its not fair that society thinks men cant raise a child. I think both men and women are capable of taking care of their children. If they love them they will know what to do to take care of them.
ReplyDeleteI think if it was fathers instead of Ida and Christine it would be just as difficult. Some situation might not have occured but there would of been different ones that are just as bad.
Aunt Ida, I feel, takes on those previous roles. She was brought up in an older time and the is how she was raised. Where the women do all the cooking and cleaning and the men work and come home to a hot meal. Christine was taught these roles while Lee was let go to fight in the war and be the face of the reservation. Christine leaves and more or less relys on others. Ray is brought up very differently. She is practically taught to be independent and fend for herself. the only roles she is taught is how to survive.
ReplyDeleteRoles are alot different today. The mother and father both share roles . Sometimes they even switch roles and the father is more the family role model while the mother is off to work. Its not ok to always peg the mother as the care taker. Thats just how it always looks. The mother is always the more nuturing one. Its just how it is seen and how it has always been seen and probably how it always will be seen.
i think in our society today women are seen as the care givers. like they are expected to stay home and cook,clean, and care for the children. i also would say that our society views men as the bread winners the ones who make all the money to provide for there families so there family doesnt have to work.
ReplyDeleteI feel that our society has def made a big change in the way we see mothers. Many women today do work and do make money to help provide for the same, the same as the father. Alot of women yes do stay home to cook clean or what so ever but only because they want to, there are plenty of jobs that they can get now a days. Now yes we will always see our mothers as the care givers because that is just what they are, there is still some confusion in the way men cook or clean soo we do leave most of it to the women. Now as for the book and movie the mother was not given a choice it just happened whether her husband left or he cheated on her therefore that role was forced upon her.
ReplyDeletei have grown up my whole life without a dad, being the man of the house, and having only a hard working mother to take care of me. it has made me a stronger, and much smarter person.
ReplyDeleteseeing what my dad has put my mother, sister, and me through has made me realize that my wife, sons/daughters will never have to live their lives without me.
it has also made me realize what effect drug abuse, and alcohol abuse has on not only your life, but the ones who love you. so that's why i choose not to do drugs.
I think our country has come along way from the tradtional gender roles but we still have room to improve. Today, women are able to work and get professional jobs but there are still those out there who see women as homemakers. It's hard for a man to take on the parenting role and care for his children because society will then quesition why the woman is not doing that job. I think it's sad that America still looks towards males as the bread winner because it shows how much further as a country we need to change.
ReplyDeleteI think Christine and Ray would have had a hard life no matter which gender raised them because there would have always be struggles to face. Although one aspect of their lives could have been different (better), they would have most likely lacked somewhere else.
I grew up with only my mother i never knew my father and my mother never bothered to tell me about him. My mother worked a steady job and taught me to be strong, independent women and to not depend on men. It wasn't until we moved to America where she changed her point of view, she got a boyfriend (who was an alcoholic), became pregnant and we all moved in together, and everything became about him. It was then when the gender roles "kicked in", she quit working only took care of her children, and did anything she could to please this man.
ReplyDeleteI think that if the roles were switched and Ray was raised by her father, then she might have a better opinion of men or father figures. Seeing as how she was raised by her mother and saw the rocky relationship her mother ad father had somehow brings up the stereotypical roles of American Indians: where one or both parents are alcoholics and where one parent runs away. In A Yellow Raft in Blue Water, Christine is the alcoholic, and her father is the one who ran away.
People in society today still think that women should still be the housewives and take care of the kids, do the laundry, cook, clean, this that and everything else. If a man were to do those things people would most likely say he is not manly if he cooks, cleans, does laundry, and takes care of the kids. My question is, what must the women do it? Why has society put a sterotype saying that women must do stuff like that because they can't do a man's job?
ReplyDeleteI think that if Ray would've been raised by her father yes things would be different because he may have different values and views than her mother. Or he may just have a different raising technique as to how he would have brought her up as she grew up.
To be quite honest I am not sure where all the sterotypes came from, they started in the very early days when men thought they had power over women and thought they could control them, how this was all started no one may ever know. But honestly a man can do a womens job and a women can also do a mans job. If each person takes time to step into the other persons shoes they would have a better understanding as to what each "role" has to do.
It is a good point to think about. We, as a society, generally don't think about it much when we see a woman playing the role of the caring mother. It is something everyone is just used to seeing. However, if we see a man is that position it catches more attention because it isn't something we are as used to. A Yellow Raft in Blue Water addresses a lot of stereotypes, we are mostly looking at the ones of Native Americans. But, the sterotype of women being the caretaker is throughout the entire book. If Ray were to have been raised by Elgin instead of Christine, of course things would have been different. He would have emerged her into a different culture and lifestyle then Christine did. I don't think either one would have raised her better though, they would raise her differently but just because she would have been raised by a male doesn't mean she would be less cared for. The stay at home mom is becoming less of a norm in our society, and I am thankful of that. Women can do so much more then stay home and care for the kids. That sterotype is so limiting.
ReplyDeleteI think this stereotype comes from mothers being the ones to carry the baby up until delivery time. They are also necessary to feed the baby until it's old enough to drink from a bottle. Throughout this time mothers become more attached to the child while provideing it with what it needs to survive therefore it looks as if the child is better off with the mother. I don't belive the mother is always the better choice though. Sometimes it's the father who is there more for the child and will do anything to take care of it before himself. Over the years it has changed more and more to either parent being able to take care of the child. I think for a very long time to come the mother will always appear the better, more suited care taker over the father.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that all women should stay home and be the caretakers, but it is proven that women tend to be more nurturing than men. We automatically know that as a mother and those instincts will kick in for Aunt Ida and Christine. They aren't going to give them to the drunk fathers and put their lives in danger. It deffinently has changed over the years though. You see less women staying home and being suzy homemaker. I've actually have heard of a lot of fathers that have takin the role as the caretaker. I believe the responsibility should be split (that's why there are two parents).
ReplyDeleteThis is very true and I see this kind of stereotyping going on even today. Surprisingly this still goes on, but I feel that this stereotype isslowly becoming less and less true. I think that this stereotype comes from the fact that people always claim that mothers are more nurturing. And I guess the men feel as though they need to be the one supporting the family, so they contribute to this stereotype too. I definitely don't think this is ok because being a woman myself, I would want my husband to stay home with the kids sometimes and I would go to work. I think that this should be a combined effort between the mother and the father. But, I do see this stereotype changing over the years because now women want to go to work too, so men sometimes have to take the responsibility of being the caretaker of their child. In today's society it is more accepting of women going out and working, and sharing the caretaker role with the men.
ReplyDeletei agree with DBERNS09 and most of the people in this page. because women give birth to children people think that they are destined to be the care takers of their children which is true but the father is also involved. i know this stereotype came from the older generations when women were not allowed to work but instead were stay at home moms. this has dramatically changed over the past few decades. women are more social and involved nowadays and are not always stay at home moms. they have careers and have rights equal to those of men. but the book and the movie do bring up this stereotype pretty well.
ReplyDeleteI think the sterotype that the mother is a better care taker come from the fact that a lot of mother stay home and take care of there kids and the house and stuff like that and the fathers out there working to support the family. But i dont think its ok to peg the mother as the care taker because a lots of father are like that to. I think that more mothers are getting jobs now and not being stay home moms and now the kid is more on there own or with a babysitter
ReplyDeleteThat Artical is hularieas. yes the rols have changed a good amount now days women were not thought to have jobs back then if you did you were kind of an outcast and backwords plus you didn't get payed much. Now days dads are takeing over a larger roll in famalies. there takeing over many of the wifes "jobs". In my famaley my mom rarley cooks ushaly only on the weekends if she does. My dad does most of the cooking and cleaning ushaly a combination of both parents and if theres a fire to be started its eather parent as well. The closest thing to a real wife "job" my mom does is bake the christmass cookies. but on trhe subject of who would have raised the kids in the book better it really depends yes they would be different in many ways had they been raised by a dad and not a mom but it would probaly take away alot of there good aspects. haveing both parents is very importnat b/c iut gives you both sides of responsibality and helps you figure out which you wanna take. Ida could not really have a dad with raising christine only b/c it would have been her dad who became a drunkin mess and nothing good would ahve came out of that. Christine raising Yay would have been helped alot with a man b/c they would have a more stable household and more income so she wouldn't have to worey as much about being broke.
ReplyDeleteWell in my house this never happens. Both my parents work and both of them try to equally take on the house work. A stereotype like this really bothers me because its like the wife is just his servent and she has no right to feel what she feels, and only to do for him never for her. In my house my dad usually does all of the cooking so thats why i find that have a warm meal ready for him when he gets home a joke because its that type of thinking that makes women seem like they are only good for cooking and cleaning.
ReplyDeleteYes i think the sterotypes still live on today, we've discussed this many times before. I don't really have a problem with the woman sterotype though because i know its only a select group who think that way. Its 2009 and things are alot different. Yes some people still have a way of thinking from the 50's but thats mostly an older generation. For some this way of living is normal though. I was watching a show on VH1 and this young woman talked about how her grandfather provided for her grandmother and her father provided for her mother so that the woman wouldn't have to work and they could stay at home. So for some people who are brought up this way, staying at home, raising the kids is what they were taught and know and they're fine with that. And a father rasing kids is only out of the norm for society because society teaches that the woman needs to raise the kids and the man needs to have the job and support the family. My 2 cousins live the opposite lifestyle. My cousin, Tara, goes to work everyday and provides for her family while her husband, Keith, stays at home with there triplets and raises them, taking them to school and all that fun parental stuff. Ida and Christine and some other woman choose to take there kids away from the father and care for the child (or children) by themselves because its what they think is best. I think its good that these woman want to take there children away from men that they see as not good fatherly figures but at the same time I can't really feel bad when they say they need help because they chose to make those choices.
ReplyDeleteIt is true we do see a lot of sterotypes and such in our culture. Like in the movie, they always show in shows and such the father running away. I have never seen the mom run out on a family in a show or movie ever. Most shows and such try to make it look like the mothers never run out on the families and that it is the fathers. I owuld never run out of my family or not be apart of my child's life no matter what happen. It is not only women who have those sterotypes, but men have them too.
ReplyDeleteGrowing up, i have never had a solid father figure which is probably one of the main reasons reasons i am the way i am. I see the struggle that a single mother has when raising a kid.
ReplyDeleteAunt Ida was raised in an earlier time so her beliefs are probably more traditional to her culture. For example, she rarely speaks english because she always speaks her native language.
Christine was more rebellious than Ida, she was the one who broke away and started a new life.
Ray was not raised very well at all. She just had to learn everything on her own which can either mess a person up, or make them stronger. Luckilly for her situation, i feel she was empowered after her struggles.
First off i want to say that that article is jank. "U have no right to question him" r u kidding me? anyways i think that the lack of a male role modle in my life hasn't really influenced me. but you can see the lack in Rayona. She doesn't show it outwardly but from her narration in the book you can tell she is really hurting with out her father.
ReplyDeleteI feel that they have chose the mothers to take care of the children because that is how America has stereotyped this situation. I have always had some type of father figure to grow up to so it is hard for me to relate to the characters. I know that if i didnt have a father figure throughout my life i would be a different person. I personally like how America has broke away from the stereotypes where mothers always are left with children, because personally I would not mind not having to work and taking care of kids. I love children.
ReplyDeleteI think that women have been known as the the nuturing because from the beginning of time women have stayed at home to take care of the kids and this has stuck through out time. I dont think that it is ok to think that women are the more nuturing and they have shown this in movies like Mr. Mom and Daddy Darecare. Men can be just as nuturing as women but it is harder to find in society.
ReplyDeletewell i think the women stereotypes started back when they had moms stay home with kids. the one who cooks and cleans. so i think people always thought she was the more nurturing one because thats the way it has always been. i think that with christine and ida being single moms does not prove the stereotype of a mom being the more nurturing one. we have seen that the single mothers in this story are not living up to what everyone expects them to be.
ReplyDeleteI feel like this is the normal stereotype because most parents that leave there kids are men. In our society i feel like it would be a bigger deal if a women were to leave her child because a mother is always thought of being the more loving parent. Our society doesn't seem to think it is as big of a deal if the father were to leave the kids. I can't really see the mother and father to be seen as the same because thats just how our society runs.
ReplyDeletei feel that in todays society the female role is seen as the more loving and nurturing of the two. i feel it is true that in most cases the father is the one to vanish from the family for whatever reason. i Think in smoke signals and yellow raft blue water things would be extremely different if it was the mothers who left and the kids were raised my there fathers.. im not saying it would be a bad thing but the views are different from parent to parent and the way certain subjects are viewed varied therefore the way the child is raised would be different
ReplyDeleteI agree with you bobo. Women normally are always figured to be there and never leave a family. When it does happen it is such a shock because we have made these sterotypes in America. I don't agree with them at all but that is just how our country is. I think that it is very sad, but we have come a long way since the fifties and sixties. As a country, i think that we will continue to grow and not move backwards.
ReplyDeleteI get so mad when people (women or men) consider rasing kids "a women's job". Just because woman give birth doesn't mean it's our job. Rasing kids are both parents are equal and should share the duties of being parents. A woman is not in any way a man's servant. I think that Christine and Ida had to be both a mom and the dad which is hard to do. My mom is a single parent of 3 and i can't imagine how she's done it. I would go insane if I ever had to do it. I congrat Christine and Ida for raising their kids to be pretty descent people considering the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteYears ago it was ok to peg mothers as the nurturer of the family. That role has changed somewhat now. People stuck in the past still raise their families with this mindset. Slowly more and more families are becoming modernized. Women are starting to be the main bread winners of households, and men will stay home with the kids.
ReplyDeleteIn A Yellow Raft in Blue Water the stereotype of the father walking out on the family is held up. It is typical for Christine to want to raise Ray differently then how Ida raised her.
I believe that this idea that women are the more nurtuiring parents comes from way back in the day when thats the way it was. the woman stayed home while the man went off to work everyday. because of all the media we have today, this role of women and men has never gone away. things have become more equal between the two in that women have a more wide variety of jobs that they can choose from, theres not many that women cant do. i think that if these roles of women in the book and movie were replaced by men, that the children they raised would be completely different, just based on the parent being a guy, it would give the characters a completely different environment to live in.
ReplyDeleteAmerica has come a long way when it comes to gender stereotypes. I'm thankful for the fact that I can get a job and live my own life, but we still have a lot of work to do in order to get rid of these stereotypes completely. The stereotypes probably came from many, many years ago when the only responsibility women had were taking care of their children.
ReplyDeleteI think if the mother's in the book were men, the children would have been different. I think some aspects of their lives would have better, and others not so much.
Gender stereotypes have been around for quite some time. They are partly linked to the genetic differences between men and women (the women are "nurturing" because of their physical bond to their children and the ability to feed them, the men are bigger and stronger to provide). It's been thousands of years of reinforcement. No wonder these things are still around. I do think that had the women been replaced with men in the book and movie, perspectives would shift a lot. But as far as adequate care, the children would be fine with either parent. I believe that the stereotype is simply that: a stereotype. For this reason, it's difficult to say whether or not things would be any different had the mothers been fathers.
ReplyDeletei agree with random_kid the perspectives would change if the father was the one taking care of the kids but at the came time the care given wouldn't change as much just because of the gender... males can be proper parents to its just that they have a different perspective on it and handle things differently. but i also think that they portray males in this way because that is the stereotype that is presented in society and in some cases this may be true but you cant forget that the father isnt always the bad guy in the family
ReplyDeleteI would have to disagree with the people that said its horrible that we have this stereotype. I think that it would be bad if a woman didn't want to take care of a kid but thought she had to because mothers are supposed to be the caring parent. The reason i don't think this stereotype is horrible is because its the parents decision of staying or leaving the kid. If a woman wants to be there for her kid and loves them; then i don't see anything wrong with that. I also feel like more women are closer to there kids than men and i feel like this is naturual.
ReplyDeleteThe mother isn't always the more nurturing parent. It's depends on the person not the gender. Sometimes I think that the mother has a stronger connection to the child because she had a person grow inside of her for nine months and the father doesn't experience that, but that doesn't mean that the mother loves the baby any more than the father. As far as the book is concered, for Ida no man would have had the option of claiming Clara's baby as their own to cover her betrail. And Clara is a perfect example of a nonnurturing mother. My point is that its different for every case, its what's in your heart not your DNA, no matter what our society says.
ReplyDeletei will say the perspective would of change if a father was taking care of one of them. I think the kid wioll be find who ever raises him , if it;s a mom or dad. I think these sterotypes came from all the years of women having to take care of there child.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletei think that our society has overcome that stereotype that moms stay at home while the dad works. Usually both parents work and have equal opportunities.In the book it showed more of the stereotype that mothers nurture the child and the dad really didn't play a major role in the novel.
ReplyDeletei think these gender roles in the book come from experiences that the author has seen. There are many stereotypes about women are better caretakers of children. I dont think this is necassarily true but in my life it is. Ive known many people that dont kno there fathers or dont live with there fathers or dont have positive relationships with there fathers. But that doesnt mean men arent also good nurturers. In the book it does show that the women raise the kids but i think this is because it is typical of that culture and many other cultures.
ReplyDeletefor some reason it has always been that the mother is the nurturing parent and the father is the disciplinary parent. it probly came to be this way because years ago women werent allowed to do any hard labor and they were taught to be the maiden and the caretaker. no i dont think its always ok to peg the mother as the caretaker because as we see in yribw. the mother will not be the nurturer. today it can be different or the same. mothers now have the choice to go to school and have a career yet they can be the stay at home mother too.
ReplyDeletei have no idea where the sterotype came from, but i do know that almost everyone in our culture is raised to think this way. Even though i feel it is wrong.It is not fair to peg the mother as the caretaker. I know a lot of boys who are more caring and sensitive then a lot of girls. In today's times its not as bad as it used to be like in that article, but men are suppose to make more money if they both work and women are expected to do things like laundry and making dinner. While, men are expected to things such as yard work and mechanical stuff. It different from how it used to be, because i see a lot more women working and you hear a lot about men being the cooks in the family. In the book it does show a lot of the sterotypes with the women raising their kids on there own.
ReplyDeletei do see this stereotype sometimes and when i do see it, its mostly as bad as you have made it sound. and its not right to make the mother the caretaker. todays families just do as much as they can to make it good for them selves. its not easy without a second parent and you can see that many times in the book. over the years a lot of the females roles have changed since most of them do work now and arent expected to do as much as they were a long time ago.
ReplyDeletei do still see alot of sterotypes. Mostly against women. Alot men think that the women has to stay home and cook, clean and take care of the kids. And some women used to think that, thats what they were supposed to do. But now they see that they need to get an independent life and make their own money...and not living off of their husband.
ReplyDeleteI believe the sterotype as mothers being the more nurtuing parents goes back from how the mothers used to be in the past. I believe though, that this stereotype has changed a lot. It doesn't seem as though fathers could care the same as a mother could because of society's views, but I believe they could care the same or more. I don't think it's ok to peg the mother as the primary caretaker. I believe that the roles of both the mother and father can be split. There are some things that a mother might handle better with a child and the other way around with the father.
ReplyDeletethere is sort of a combination. the stereotypes are perpetuated by the mother being the prevalent parent raising the children in the household. but if you compare the mothers in the text to the article, there are some major differences. to begin, in each household, neither father is there at all. elgin comes around sometimes but he does not live with christine and ray. and christine and lee had no idea who their father was. the article doesn't say anything about the roles of a single mother so there is a point of divergence. i think the role of the father really depends on the man. every man has the choice when the have a child to be involved in their child's life or to be as uninvolved as possible and that choice is up to the man. you cannot ignore the prevalence of single mothers in this society and the fact that in most societies around the world the women are expected to be the ones at home with the kids, but i think if we take a closer look into the home life of a family and not just the face value of a mom out shopping with the kids and not the dad, we will find that dads are a lot more involved that we think
ReplyDeleteI find that the stereotype of women being more of a caregiver than a father offensive on behalf of men. I know many of fathers that are just as or more so qualified to be the parent to a child. Also i believe that the creation of this partical society was originated by religious concept that founded this nation. Even for those that do not express religion directly they actually do because generation this idea of a partical soceity originated from the idea of religion. Another that i find inferiorating is that the courts find women to be more suitable care for a child but the finicall burden is placed on the male. However when the male is left with taking care of child the finical burden is still left in the hands of the male. Among the many things that are wrong with our judicial system the most offensive beside racial preference is sexual preference in decided childs custdy in a divorce case. In a prefect world the man and woman both contribute the same amount of love and care which is not decided based of the gender of the guardian.
ReplyDeleteI think society today puts mothers in a harsh description. Such as mothers do all the cleaning and cooking and take care of the kids. Its sad to see this go on and how people think this is how a family is suppose to be but its not. A family is to be cared for and takin care for by both parents and the duties around the house should be shared between both and not just the mother.
ReplyDeleteI think its good that America has gotten off the stereotype that men should not be involved that much around the house and in his childrens life. I know of a few single dads that are some great parents and proudly do everything that a woman used to be expected to do.
ReplyDeleteI feel that everyone is very biased and put everyone into what they think they are. No matter if that is gay straight, indian white black, it does not matter. peopl offten think that each rold in our world is played by each race and we but then into that role. As though in are books, indians were known to live on reservations and be poor where as in a step from heaven its koren women who do worka dn get treated very poorly its life and we all get judged or put into some type of role..
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