Monday, April 6, 2009
Double Consciousness
On page 186 in A Yellow Raft in Blue Water, there is a passage where Christine remarks, “My baby, not me, recorded the jokes Elgin's new friends made about his Indian squaw and how he had got himself scalped before his last stand." Christine continues to describe Ray's exposure to Elgin’s and his friends' comments. We talked a lot about the idea of ‘Double Consciousness’ and forming your identity based on others’ opinions of you. I’m interested with how you all feel about Elgin’s role in Ray’s identity. Re-read the first full paragraph on page 186 and let me know what you think. Do you think Elgin’s attitudes affected Ray’s identity? How do you think members of minority cultures internalize the views of the majority?
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According to this part in the book, Christine seems to be losing her identity. She sort of ignores all the problems in her life, and just "hopes" everthing turns out ok. She turns her back, and it seems as though she lets people take over her. I do believe Elgin affects Ray's identity. Becasue of his attitude towards Christine, Christine turned her back and that led Ray to not really understand a lot of things.
ReplyDeleteI do think that Elgin's attitudes really affected Ray's identity, not only by the fact that he and his friends were always joking about Christine being Indian, but also in the fact that it seemed as though he made Ray choose between the two sides of her identity. When Elgin would take Ray out without Christine, I think that he was showing her the other side than her indian side since Ray wouldn't say much about it. I think that this leads to Ray's confusions later in life dealing with her identity. Therefore i think the Ray internalizes the view of the majority in a way that makes her think that she can never be seen as one person but as both identities and has to show different sides when around certain people.
ReplyDeleteIn this part of the story it seems like Ray's friends tease her alot about her idenity,and the fact that she is indian. It seems like when Ray is not with christine she appreciates being an indian, but when she is with Christine she doesn't. I think Christine is effecting Ray on how she will act in different situations. Depending on who she is with she will act one way, and she needs to choose one idenity.
ReplyDeleteI think Elgin is the main reason Ray is so confused on her identity. To be stuck in the middle of two races could be very stressful. To feel like you don't fit in with either side.His friends teasing him made her feel being indian was below everyone and she was uncomfortable with her identity.
ReplyDeleteI think that Elgin's attitude does affect Ray. The way he teases Christine about her being Indian and just in general the way she treats Christine. In my opinion, Ray needs to really figure out who she is. She needs to pick whether she is African-American or Native-American, or embrace both sides.
ReplyDeletewhaddup ya'll. i feel like in this part of the book christine is running from her native american culture because her experinces with it thus far has not been good. she just runs from her problems and hopes she makes it throug it all. i think her way of going about things is stupid because rejecting her identity will just leave her confused and she will not know who to be next. its like that day in class when we talked about trying to live a double standard it could work for a while but sooner or later they will catch up with you. BANG OUT YEP!
ReplyDelete-conner turk
the way elgin treats ray definatly affects ray. elgin is giving her something else to have to fight against to be comfertable in her own skin. its too bad that elgin doesnt realize that. having elgin do this makes Ray second guess herself on whether she is comfertable with being a native american indian.
ReplyDeletea yo dog, i feel christine is a weak character because she runs from all her problems and also has somewhat disowned her native american culture and heritage
ReplyDelete-mohamed wali
I think Elign had a big say over how Christine viewed herself and her heritage. It was very apparent that she had to pick one side to identify with. Along with many other indians I think Christine went away from her indian heritage and jus wanted to be "normal." By this decision she ignored many things from her indian heritage that lead Ray also to be uninformed about her backround as well.
ReplyDeleteI think what Elgin said did affect Ray and how she felt about herself. I don't think Elgin is helping Ray find her identity, because she is just making her more and more confused. I do feel like minority cultures listen a lot to the majority. They put burdens on certain groups, so that they feel obliged to do what they are sterotyped as. Which i do not feel is a good thing.
ReplyDeleteI think that as much as many people that are a part of the minority cultures want to ignore the stereotypes placed upon them by other people, sometimes it's just easier to conform. As an example, I'm sure each of us could probably think of a girl that is very smart but doesn't always act that way because they want to be liked by guys, which stereotypically pursue girls that don't think for themselves. In both cases, the stereotype causes the people involved to conform. You could also see some rebellion where the people go against the grain, but it's interesting to me to observe how comments made by society pressure individuals to conform. I think in the case of Ray and her dad, the comments his friends made probably influenced her identity more than she would have liked to admit.
ReplyDeleteLike everyone else said i do agree that christine is losing her identity and Ray is pretty confused about where she belongs. Her father, Elgin, really treats her as if she is not even important to her. Ray like her mother is starting to run away from her problems. She is always lieing to get her way. Christine in the other hand, i feel, lets other people take advantage of her. Ray is better than her mother for she actually is running towards indian heritage and is not ashamed of it.
ReplyDeletei agree with Ayan2010... Christine is loosing her identity and that just makes things for ray much more difficult because knowing your heritage is very important and if the person who is suppose to set an example for you is always running away then what kind of message does that send to you as a person... this makes life decisions hard for ray. she doesn't know where to turn except to her lies to try to better herself, in this case her lies open opportunities so its not as harmful to her.
ReplyDeletei think for ray to be teased by Elgins' friends doesn't help ray find her identity. shes already confused as it is, but but now friends of her very own father are making fun of her. ray needs a peaceful way to find out about her past, but have people make fun of her really doesn't help.
ReplyDeleteI think Elgin's comments have a strong affect on Ray because Elgin is almost holding Ray back from finding and coming to terms with her identity. The fact that Elgin makes fun of Christine's indian culture can not make Ray feel proud of being Native American and mush make her shy away from those traditions when she is around Elgin. I agree a lot with what Corey said in that minority cultures usually agree with the majority thoughts. I think that when one person is stereotyped a certain way, they generally will to fit in more, making for a even more confusing identity.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Elgin as affecting Rays identity. I think Christine needs to stand up for her heritage and maybe Ray will see the differences. Christine just lets it go on and on and thats not a good thing for Ray to see.
ReplyDeleteI think its true that others can affect how you choose your identity. I also believe that Elgin is doing this to Ray. I have realized that Ray doesnt really appriciate her native american hertiage, but only when she is around her mom. Christine has never liked being an Native American and that seems to rub off on Ray. However, I think deep down Ray really likes the culture. I hope that they both realize how important their background is.
ReplyDeleteI do think that Elgin's comments have a strong impact on Ray. He certainly wasn't praising her Indian culture which probably made her feel like she had to hide that part of her. It would be very hard life for someone if they shut out a part of who they are. People who don't like a part of themselves need to at least accept it and know that it can't change. Ray must come to good terms with her Indian side in order to live a healthy life.
ReplyDeleteThe things that Elgin and his friends say are very hurtful. If I were Christine I would not stand for it, but for some reason it seems like she doesn't let it bother her. If Ray heard these things at a young age I would think that she would take it to heart. She would have low self-confidence. It also bothers me that Elgin joins in teasing Christine. How could you do that to your wife?
ReplyDeleteI do belive that ELgin has a big impact on Ray, when you are teased that way him and his friends tease her of coarse your going to want to be what is right in there eyes. I think Ray is really tore wether to think she is native american or african american, i feel that Ray has know idea what she wants, i also feel she says one thing to make some one else happy and not her self such as her mother. Ray really needs to find out what makes her happy and what she wants to identify herself as and feel comfortable with it... Christne needs to step up and tell Ray that it is okay to be who you are and not care what people think, and by letting elgin talk to her that way does not help the fact!
ReplyDeleteElgin has a big impact on Ray. Ray cares to much about what people think about her. She is torn between her two cultures, Native American and African American, she herself dose not know. She needs to help figure it out for herself and also stop being weak and running away. She needs to think for herself not the people around her.
ReplyDeleteI think that the fact that Elgin has a really big impact on Ray. His comments to her are hurtfull and his inability to stay with Christine and Ray leave her feeling confused about her idenity and his identity in her life. But I also believe Christine should be there for her daughter and show her both sides of her heritage so she can learn more about them and not feel so lost.
ReplyDeleteIn this part of the book i feel that Christine finally demonstrates that she doesn't like here culture and allows others to talk badly about what she is. Especially the comment about scalping. That was completely called for and even if you are not proud of where you are from you should not let anyone talk negatively about you. That is just show that you do have a spine.
ReplyDeleteI think that she is changing her identity in this part of the book so she can conform to her friends. Many minorities want to go with the crowd or the majority. Many times they will give up their culture so they can be considered normal by the rest of the community. In the Amish culture they are allowed at a certain age to leave and decide whether they want to stay Amish or not. Many times they decide not to come nack because they want to be in the norm.
ReplyDeleteI think that Christine is losing her identity. And I also think that Elgin plays a big part in Ray's life. It effects the way she sees her identity. I think that she is more confused about her identity more than anything. And I think that Christine needs to set a good example for her daughter. She needs to show her that its okay to show your identity and where you came from.
ReplyDeletei think christine lets ray down by just letting this happen. she is slowly beginning to lose her identity at this point in the book. to ray elgin effects her identity a lot. i think ray doesnt want to let him down and cares a lot about what he thinks.
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